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DavidWL
I'd like us to have a chance to compare each of our builds (both now and in the future). I've made some estimations when I didn't know something. Also, this is mostly comparisons without buffs ... things could certainly change a lot as different possessed bodies/wildshaped forms/buff sequences/spells are choosen. I'd like people to edit the evaluations of their own builds for greater accuracy.
Here are a few things we can compare on (suggestions very welcome):
- Survivability (ability to avoid nasty things) & HP survivability / AC (including evasion, DR, etc.)
- Combat utility
- Out of Combat utility
10th level Builds:
Survivability
- Estimated: 13/8/8 Saves, 28 AC, ~80 HP. Lots of Akashic/Chameleon Trickery
- 17/15/21 + reroll 1s for Saves, 28 AC (including touch and flatfooted), 82 HP
- Dhraksis - rogue multi-pouncer ; stats not complete
- Estimated: 10/10/10 Saves, ~? 80HP, Improved Evasion. AC?
- 15/17/19 + Mettle for Saves, Incorporeal, Rejuvenation, AC 22 vs all, 181 HP (one tough mother)
- ZarZak - Planar Shepherd Warlock - snapshot in main page
- 11/4/11 Saves, ~63 HP, 24 AC; 23 flatfoot, 17 touch
...
DavidWL -
Surreal is one tough mother. I'm doing pretty good. I'd say: Surreal > DavidWL > NoldorForce > Dhraksis = ZarZak
Although part of the reason I'm putting ZarZak towards the bottom is that it looks like he intends to be in the thick of things with a Werebear from. So, my summary: Surreal is definitely too tough to really hurt unless it can attack him directly. I may be a little too tough. ZarZak needs beefing up if he plans to be in the thick of things (buff sequence?).
^^- ZarZak - Celestine, with his wonderful warlock abilities, can and probably will spend all day flying around shooting ridiculous eldtrich rays and spells at people. The werebear form just happened to be a good one for this level as it gives big stat boosts and is a humanoid form. He'll also have some strong battlefield control utility.
^^Surreal - Sul is indeed very difficult to hurt, moreso if I have a strong host body to inhabit, in which case it's almost impossible to do damage to me directly. However, I do have other limitation (see below). My ability to actually deal damage is also highly dependant on what bodies I am able to inhabit; otherwise I sit squarely in the role of disabler.
^^Noldor - At this point, Vintereth will probably buff-and-switch, preferably with stuff Extended by a rod. That AC will probably be increased in a few ways. And at 12th level, weirder stuff will happen (see below).
Combat utility
Please flesh out some stats for each of your builds:
- At the moment, just a many-hit fighter type. At later levels, this will change.
- Nasty Spellcasting (many choices, DCs = 22+lvl, CL=15)
- Probably very effective with the pouncing
- combat involves a couple options:
a) possessing whatever is the biggest melee threat (and/or whoever has the lowest will save)
b) trying to mentally disable my opponents (daze, confuse, stun, etc. or outright mindgames)
c) sending in my shadow companion with the negative aura and to do ~6 Str damage (if any of the casters could follow up with a maxed out twinned Ray of Enfeeblement or somesuch, that neutralizes a threat pretty quickly)
d) under ideal circumstances (ie: never), I can do all of the above simultaneously
My ability to deal any real combat damage is highly dependant on what kind of bodies I can possess. Otherwise, I sit back in the role of disabler. If all the enemies are immune to my mental tricks, then I suppose I have a couple other options:
e) possess an ally and grant bonuses to stats (+4 Str/Con, +4 to another (can be either Str or Con again)
f) hide, possibly possess an item held by the enemy to sneak away with them after battle (assuming I telepathically tell the team to call a strategic retreat)
- ZarZak - Planar Shepherd Warlock
- Full Druidic casting, Warlock abilities, and Werebear form. 8d6 Hellfire blast each round, + whatever battlefield control spells/invocations are needed. He'll be flying so he'll be able to get a good scope of the field. Probably quite effective
...
DavidWL -
Looks to me like everyone is good, although as stats get fleshed out we'll see if anyone is particularly overpowering when it comes to laying smackdown on monsters. To some extent this depends on the tricks people intend to use. If we knew stats for the primary trick, that could help (chance to hit, number of attacks, average damage or DCs and CLs, etc.)
Out of Combat utility
Looks to me like everyone is good. Please flesh out some stats for each of your builds:
- Some social skills, bits of trickery with Knowledge skills, and low-SL arcane casting. With time to prepare, spell and feat rerouting can occur. Don't forget item crafting, either. If/when I can get a copy of Lords of Madness (still can't find my original copy), I'll work out something for that mean Elder Eidolon.
- Very flexible spellcasting, Social Monkey with +24-+36 on a few social skill checks
- Rogue skill set?
- With an incorporeal changling ghost, he has lots of tricks
- my options here actually aren't that different from my combat options:
a) possess bodies, read thoughts, telepathy, multi-lingual, gather info, I spy with my little eye
b) Changeling Rogue substitution level lets me make quick gather info and social sense motive checks
c) I do NOT have a good trapfinding ability, but as a ghost I can float a through anything and easily scout relatively undetected
d) David/Tanner's Fiend of Possession will have many similar abilities
e) I am not the primary face despite the skills and high Cha; however, in a couple levels I will take a level of Marshall and be able to boost everyone's Cha skills
- ZarZak - Planar Shepherd Warlock
- Full Druidic casting (and later on, Clerical). Out of combat Celestine can open gates to other planes, and do lots of nature-y stuff (the druid spell list is pretty big). He can also sneak around quite well depending on the shape he's in. Some out of combat tricks, but not so many?
...
DavidWL -
My thought is that I don't know what role Dhraksis wants to play out of combat. I think that NoldorForce and Surreal make for great sneaks, and I make for a great face. Also, I don't know what ZarZak can/would like to do. I don't know much about Druids...
Other Thoughts
DavidWL -
In the higher levels ...
- He'll keep up via the flexibility of chameleon/akashic - NoldorForce
- The fast growth of the utility of magic will mean that this grows faster tan normal. DavidWL - Theurge Charisma Monkey
- I wonder ... as levels get higher, will his build need beefing up? Maybe add some more LA on one side? Dhraksis
- Because of the uniquenss of his many tricks, I think he'll be good throughout. Surreal
- He'll power up amazingly as soon as he gets access to the Solar form (CL 17 Clerical casting! Full Solar goodness!). It will be a stretch for any of us to keep up ... ZarZak
^^- ZarZak - Celestine will access to Planetar form at lvl 14, Solar form at lvl 18. He'll also soon be able to access Titan form, and Efreeti form. This is besides all of the other forms he can take (a huge number thanks to planar shepherd).
Just a start ...
Best,
David
Surreal
I pretty much hit the high point of my "tricks" at mid level with Cabinet Trickster. The next few levels speed up my mind reading with Mindspy and introduces Master of the Unseen Hand (which I'm actually not too familiar with, but it seems like the right thing to use). If anything, my power curve slows down significantly from this point on. Grabbing leadership is an option which I'm still mulling over. Any suggestions for the later levels? I just threw Swordsage in there because ToB seems like the popular thing to use.
Noldor - Vintereth's power will increase as she rises in level. 12th level will be the biggest increase in power, considering the +2->+4 boost in Ability Boon, multiple Aptitude Foci, Permanency availability, and Polymorph Any Object (brachina have 12 HD). There's also the eventual fun of starting out with the divine focus and burning its spells out before swapping to combat, which will come at 14th level (aptitude focus 3/day). Plus, there's warshaper goodness and the collection of feats and ability increases from Evolved Human. Finally, the akashic abilities are all very useful: continued sneak attack, skill goodness, feats, and an eventual 7th-level SLA. If we go into epic levels, Vintereth will probably continue her chameleon//akashic progression. The former grants higher caster levels and more bonuses to existing stuff, while the latter eventually grants 9th-level SLAs and the ability to sneak attack practically anytime (useful with Staggering Strike).
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